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Interview With Dennis Balthaser 24 January, 2008
Part II of III
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Former Roswell Debris Field At Foster Ranch Ken: You did? Dennis Balthaser: I know that Glenn Dennis, the mortician was told that if he talked about it they would find his bones in the sand. There were others and in 1997 I went to Oklahoma to get a piece of the metal. I got a call from a guy, his dad was here as a military policeman. He got a piece of the metal, the size of a silver dollar, if you crumbled it up, it went back into its original shape in a few seconds. So I made arrangements to meet the guy. He had terminal cancer, I talked to the guy once, I talked to his son several times, confidentiality the whole thing and I went over to Oklahoma, had the phone number and called and was told he was out of town on an emergency. I told the son I was expecting to meet with him the next day and I laid around the hotel all day. I called 3 times and kept getting a recording. Finally about 3 o'clock the phone rang and a woman said to meet them at Denny's restaurant at 7 o'clock. So I went to Denny's restaurant and a man and woman walked in fitting the clothing description she had giving me on the phone. She said are you Dennis, I said yeah. She said that the gentlemen you planned on meeting will not be here. I said, who are you? She said we are special agents for the United States Air Force, Office of Special Investigation. I said how did you know I was coming over here? He said we knew Friday that you would be here Monday. I said is my phone tapped, he said you know how we do business. I sat down with these people for about a 3 1/2 hour meeting. I didn't take any notes, I was scared to death. We talked about Area 51, we talked about Roswell, they had a map of New Mexico, we talked about the crash sites. He had some drawings of ufos, we talked about the bible connection, we talked about the government cover up and basically he said that the family decided that the government should have it and not me. I left and never went back and never got to meet the son or the father. I got back on a Sunday and called over there on Monday and talked to the son and told him how upset I was that I was setup like that and he said I can't talk, there is someone still here. By that time another voice came on the phone and said he was in charge of the 2 agents that I had met. We were on the phone about 20 minutes, I think about 3 times he told me his office didn't do any strong arm tactics, I don't know why I needed to know that. It pretty much died, I couldn't go any further with it. In December of 1997 I realized that I had never checked to see who owned that telephone for that number that I had in Oklahoma. I called my long distance carrier. I lied to them and told them I was doing some taxes and I need a name for some phone calls I had made. It turns out it was in the first name of the female agent. I called over there again, told her who I was and that I was upset and told her that I would give her the opportunity to explain what happened. A male voice came on the phone and said if you keep messing with the Air Force, you are barking up the wrong alley, "click". That I considered a threat. I have not been able to follow up since, I don't know if the people were real agents or not, I have no reason to believe they weren't. If they were real agents, than 50 years later we still had a cover up. If it is a hoax and I was scammed and it is a possibility that `I was set up, I would like to know who they were, because they were impersonating federal agents which is a pretty serious offense. I still work this, it is still active, but I am not getting anywhere with it because a lot of the names I was given are not real names. To answer your question, threats are real. Ken: Were you ever able to determine the exact shape of what crashed in Roswell, or was there more than one craft? Dennis Balthaser: They talk about discs, but we are pretty much of the opinion that it is was kind of not necessarily a triangle, but more like the heel of a shoe, with a rounded front and a squared off back and this is pretty much the accepted configuration or shape of it. Size wise it was probably 25 to 30 feet in diameter. Ken: It has been said that some of the high power radar units can knock down ufos because they effect the engines in some way. Years later it was even said that a ufo attacked and destroyed a Russian radar station. Do you believe that this is true? Dennis Balthaser: Yeah, good point Ken. Microwave was in use then and on the Aztec crash which happened on March 1948, which supposedly happened 10 months after Roswell, we located 3 radar stations in New Mexico that we didn't even know existed. The microwave radar could have an effect on both propulsion and guidance. The story that we have had for years about Roswell, was that it was involved in a thunder storm and it could have been hit by lightning, which could also have had an effect on propulsion or guidance. We don't know whether they were used to those kinds of things or not and whether it was a problem or not? This was a definite possibility because microwave was in use in the area and could have had some effect on it coming down.
Flag of Roswell, New Mexico Ken: Yeah, I had heard that the Russians had actually built a weapon out of a high powered radar to actually knock these things down. Dennis Balthaser: It's a possibility, I am not familiar with it, but it is a possibility. Ken: Why do you think that the US Army originally put out the story that a flying disc had crashed, if they didn't believe that it was true? Dennis Balthaser: One of the things we are looking at now and this has come about through Walter Haut's affidavit, the public relations officer, who came out with an affidavit that he signed in 2002, where he said that General Ramey and Colonel Dubois were here in Roswell for a meeting on July 8, prior to the news release coming out. We are trying to find some flight records and some diaries to verity that and Ken, that is going to be important, because it means that they sat around a table and handled the debris and made the decision to have a cover story. It is my understanding from witnesses that were at that meeting that they said, lets just tell them what it was, because basically, no one will believe it. That's a possibility. Ken: I guess. Dennis Balthaser: The other thing is that it could have been brought down Main Street in Roswell and nobody would have paid any attention to it, because there were a tremendous amount of aircraft crashes in the vicinity of Roswell during those years with the 509th being located here and other squadrons being located here. This was a big base in 1947 and constantly there were craft being brought through town on flatbeds with tarps over them and no one paid any attention to them. I think that it could have been brought through town to the base and no one would have paid any attention to it. Ken: That's a good fact, I haven't heard that one before. You've dedicated a good part of your life to the Roswell investigation, was it worth it? Dennis Balthaser: Oh yeah, well maybe not. (We both laughed here) Dennis Balthaser: Good question though. Frustration sets in every so often. You are fighting a battle with the military and the government, trying to get information. You are constantly being lied to or diverted into another direction. Freedom of Information Act requests are very discouraging sometimes, because we have this law that says that they are supposed to be truthful with us. If you mention Roswell you can bet that you are going to get a rubber stamped reply that those records were probably destroyed in a fire, from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. It a constant battle and I think... I am 66 years old and I used to think that I am going to have an answer here before I die, but now I am beginning to think that I won't. Ken: No I don't think that any of us will know the answer to this. Dennis Balthaser: If what I do, or what other researchers do is profitable and shows the truth, then it was all worth it, because if our kids and our grand kids can ever find truth, I think that is going to be a benefit and I guess that is why I keep doing it. Every so often I get an email from a kid in high school, junior high school, community college or college, that's doing a report on ufos and they write me and ask me if I will answer questions. I make a deal with them and say that I will, if they will send me a copy of the report. I post them on my website. Ken: I get that once in a while. Dennis Balthaser: I have a section for kids to use on ufos that I am really proud of, because some of these kids haven't been corrupted yet and they have some pretty good theories and some pretty good ideas and it's really the hope for the ufo community that we get young people involved. Ken: That's right. Does the Roswell Museum contain any materials that are actually from crash sites? Dennis Balthaser: No, no. They had a piece back in the mid 90s that was given to them. I was involved with having that checked and it turned out to be Japanese Jewelry. It was layered copper, brass and silver and extremely interesting. We sent it out to New Mexico Tech and they did testing on it and it was all earthly products. We finally located the company that makes the stuff. No there hasn't been actual proof, no.
Airmen With A Drop Dummy Ken: Do you know Dr. Roger Leir? Dennis Balthaser: Yeah. Ken: Then you must know that he stated that he has an object that was recovered from the Roswell crash. Dennis Balthaser: He is the one that does, that removes...... Ken: Implants, yes. Dennis Balthaser: I knew that he had some material, I didn't know that it was specifically from the Roswell crash,. Yeah I am familiar with his work and what he does. Ken: He told me that he doesn't actually know where it is, but he can get his hands on it if he has to. The reason that he keeps it that way is that everyone that has come into contact with this thing has died. Dennis Balthaser: Well yeah. The thing is that anyone that goes public with this is not going to have it very long. Mac Brazel's son himself had gone to a bar in Corona and he had gone out to the crash site, sometime after the crash, on horseback, I think after it rained and he found some metal, went into Corona, talked about it at the bar and the next day he was visited and told I want it. The museum had offered one million dollars for a verifiable piece, which was kind of a dumb thing to do, because anyone that would contact the museum and have a piece would be followed and taken care of. Ken: Yep. If I was to go to any of the crash sites today and I brought with me a metal detector, a Geiger Counter or any other instrument, would I be able to detect anything unusual at all? Dennis Balthaser: I don't think so Ken. A few years ago the Sci-Fi Channel and the University of New Mexico archeological team did a dig and they recovered 60 some samples, of which nothing proved of value. What they did discover though was that there was supposedly a trench where this thing hit the ground and slid for some period of time. They took a back hoe and dug across that trench. About 2 feet down there is a difference in the strata of the dirt. That needs to be looked at again, because that could have filled in over 50 years with dust storms and stuff and I think that would be worth looking at. As far as any material, it was our impression that perhaps varmints could have taken some of the material, taken down to their holes in the dirt, but nothing of any value has ever been discovered. There was a cleanup done by the military on more than one occasion where the guys were shoulder to shoulder, walking across the field, basically like a vacuum cleaner picking up everything that was there. Ken: I've heard that many ufos are still being sighted in the area. Do you believe that they are actually ufos or that people coming to the town are so hyped up that they are in Roswell that they think that they are seeing ufos? Dennis Balthaser: Well first of all about 90 to 95% of what people see that they believe are ufos are explainable objects. They are planets, stars, meteors, weather balloons, airplanes, whatever, manmade objects or natural phenomena. Those we don't worry about. What we do worry about are the 5 or 10% that can't be explained. Like in Blue Book, the government report on flying saucers, 1300 cases of which several hundred are still unexplained. What is interesting is that Roswell is not even in the Blue Book. Ken: I didn't know that. Dennis Balthaser: No. the Roswell incident is not in the government Blue Book.
Dennis Balthaser At The Border Of Area 51
Ken: Switching to the topic of Area 51, do you believe that secret research on captured ufos is taking place there? Dennis Balthaser: I want to. I don't know that for a fact, but there have been reports. There are 22 levels below ground. There is a place called S-4 that is adjacent to Area 51, where supposedly there are doors made into the side of the mountain and there are 7 levels below ground there. The reports we heard state that is where the stuff is kept. I think today, if there is debris from the Roswell craft that it could well be at Area 51, because of the security. I was up there 2 years ago, I did 2 lectures at the little town of Rachael and my wife and I drove out to both the gates, front and back gate and harassed the guards a little bit. The signs still say the use of deadly force is authorized and they mean it. Its the top secret military base in the world and the size of Connecticut. It has 2 runways and one is 30,000 feet long. What they are bringing in I don't know, but that's a lot of runway so they must be bringing in something at tremendous velocity. Ken: Well there are 2 things that you said. One that the area that they keep the secret things at is known as S-4. I don't know if you have a military background? Dennis Balthaser: Yes. Ken: Oh, then you know what S-4 is, intelligence. In Area 51 it is said that there are underground, sort of refrigeration units where they keep bodies of aliens. Have you heard this? Dennis Balthaser: Not at Area 51 I haven't, but at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where the Roswell craft was first taken, yes they had it there, they had cold storage facilities and were doing research and development in the second world war with the equipment that we had captured from the Germans. It was the logical place to take the bodies or craft from the crash. Today I wouldn't be surprised if Area 51 has that. Ken: A famous rocket scientist claims that he was taken into a building there and taken down on an elevator below a hanger and there was an advanced rocket prototype there that was far beyond anything we were currently known to have. Have you heard that story? Dennis Balthaser: Are you referring to Bob Lazar? Ken: No, I can't remember this man's name to be honest with you, but it certainly was not Bob Lazar. This man was a rocket scientist. Bob Lazar is an engineer that was back engineering ufos. Dennis Balthaser: Supposedly. Ken: Yeah, I called him and you can't get an interview with him on ufos anymore. Dennis Balthaser: Well he's very questionable, not only his background but his education doesn't match up or anything else. The only other guy that I know of that would be close to that was a guy named Phil Schneide. He was involved at Dulce up in New Mexico, which is supposed to be another secret underground base and he encountered some aliens underground while they were doing some engineering work and was zapped with some kind of gun, a ray gun or something and got cancer. Ken: Oh year I know that story he supposedly was one of the only survivors. They had a fight down there. Dennis Balthaser: Right. He went public and was found in his apartment with piano wire wrapped around his neck. People said that he committed suicide, which is impossible to do. I am not familiar with the guy you are talking about, no.
Area 51, First Gate Ken: Well anyway, it's really not that important I guess. Recently it was stated that the famous hanger 18 of Area 51 fame is really no longer a hanger, but an office building that was built where the hanger used to be. Have you heard this story? Dennis Balthaser: I don't believe you asked that. Just yesterday I was in contact with a guy in Dayton, Ohio, who wrote to me, he found me on the website. I wrote back to him and said, since you are at Dayton, do you know anything. He wrote back and said his mother was taken out by some military man and shown a hanger in 1993 or 1994 and referred to it as hanger 18. Now if that's the case, then Wright Patterson has a new hanger 18. Originally we had heard that this was where they took the material from Roswell in 1947. That became popular with Barry Goldwater, who was a United States Senator and was a retired Brigadier General from Arizona who ran for president and lost. He had asked General LeMay if he could go into the room in hanger 18. He was told, don't ever ask that question again This was a man running for president of the United States, a retired United States Air Force General and told he had no business going there. As we speak I am communicating with this guy in Dayton and his mother is going to write up a report for me about this hanger 18. I am anxious to get into that. Ken: I think that you are going to find that it is now an office building. Dennis Balthaser: The old one, yeah. Ken: A brick office building. Dennis Balthaser: That is what I understand. Maybe there is a new hanger 18, which is what I am trying to find out? Ken: Do you believe that Area 51 is the hub for everything extraterrestrial, or it is just a ruse to keep us looking there while they do something at some other base? Dennis Balthaser: Hmmm.. , good question. So much of what we hear is diversionary, just like the crash sites. The one just north of town, 22 miles north of town, I think it was a diversionary site to get people away from the actual site and I think what you're saying is that Area 51..., I think it has a lot to do with the ufo situation, but there is also a lot of other stuff and it was actually opened by the CIA in 1955 to test the U-2 aircraft. Every aircraft after that has been tested out there, the SR-71 Blackbird, the A-10, the A-12, the B-1, the B-2, the F-117. It is a good place to do the testing and to me Area 51 is a Catch-22. You don't want to tell your adversaries what you are doing, you can't tell your friends anything, without your enemies knowing it. I think it is a good location and that it has a viable purpose for the technology and things like that. They are exempt from environmental law. Ken: Oh I am well aware of that, yeah. Dennis Balthaser: Two guys had died and their wives had tried to sue the government and the government said that you can't sue something that doesn't exist. There is a lot going on there that we don't know about and probably a lot that we don't need to know about. My problem is that if there is anything related to ufology, ufos, craft, bodies, whatever, I would like to know that. Ken: I think that we all would. Dennis Balthaser: Yeah. Ken: Area 51, actually the site was picked by a test pilot. Dennis Balthaser: Yeah. |
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